One thing I will add is we hung a ceiling light and had to buy a stud finder from Lowes so that we didnt hit the radiant system. Please cite a paper or study supporting your theory; I've never read one. Put simply, Warmboard requires the least amount of energy of any radiant system to maintain a comfortable temperature in the home. Navies on demand Hot Water . I figured out what the Single Pole LR10499 22A-120/v240;18A-277VAC means. 00. Distribution is only a matter of planning. I said I'd have a Hi All, There is a 3-wire cable for each room that runs 2 hot wires and an unshielded ground from the breaker box to each room for 220v. I don't know too much about radiant heating system in general. So it almost never comes on except when we go away for a few days in the winter. The 3 ways are at each side of the garage at the 2 Hi Now there's a daunting and expensive repair for you. I'm new to this but stuck with an issue, so I'm looking for some help wherever possible. Some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer a hot head. She was concerned because houses the age of mine that is have caught fire in th ceiling. Please help.. thank you in advance.. Do I need to do anything special to paint my ceiling that has radiant heat? Myth No.2: Radiant Ceiling Heat is Not Efficient. I'm really not trying to start a Riversong battle -- just trying to shed some light where you are misinformed. So if youre sleeping in a second-floor bedroom, you no longer need to cover the cost necessary to keep the unoccupied first-floor at 70 degrees. Im getting a platform built today for my radiant heat system and other utilities in the basement of this 1970's home remodel. It is more efficient than baseboard . The heating working great, I just want a digital thermostat put in. It's also incorrect to state that you'll see higher heat bills. The hardware of this device is mounted over the head making it very practical for homeowner living in small houses. There may be no such thing as a perfect system, but, hey, its 2015: You deserve heating that operates efficiently to create consistent comfort. If you're going to work on your system, be careful, you're playing with 220v. Looking at buying an older home built in late 70's we think.. Many interesting posts enjoying the debate. It was comment #24. thanks. Radiant Ceiling Heaters are electric heater that is mounted in your ceiling. Voltage from each hot wire to one of the grid leads showed 85v, same as my good room. What can I do with this weird 2 ft cantilever. Radiant and convective heating systems produce different thermal comfort environments and generally differ in energy consumption due to their nature of heat delivery or removal. It is, like all electric resistance heat baseboards, fan-forced wall heaters, electric furnaces 100 percent efficient in converting electricity into heat. But had i know better, i'd still would've consider heat pumps as main heat source because of the cost difference vs resistance. personally, i liked better multiple baseboard heaters than overhead ceiling, unless with a pretty high ceiling ( 11ft + ) .that might change things . 1970's retro fit rear car window heater built in, thick visible tracks) are fragile and easily damaged. Also We need to repair one wire that the electrician cut into. This principle of using wire elements to create radiant heat has been greatly refined over the years and forms the basis of many current energy-efficient infrared heaters made today. ( electrical,wire is buried at the bottom, would preferred a mid slab but it was to complex to install that way). Every room has its own thermostat and dedicated circuits I would like to see a comparison with the same setback temperatures, but there are many other factors that affect the efficiency of this SYSTEM. They now claim no responsibility so trying to replace it ourselves with something different. Electrical Safety Advice | ElectriciansForums.net. In addition, the system does not require much maintenance or cleaning once installed and one of the safest types of heating. An Ecowarm radiant ceiling can typically operate in water temperature ranges of 80F-95F, while Ecowarm radiant floors will often operate in the 95f-120F temperature range. It's very comfortable and maintenance-free. The heat would be 240V (dbl pole).If a dbl pole thermo was installed, it would `correctly` break BOTH 120V legs of the power. Is any of this comfortable? Our home was built in 1957 and has radiant heat in the ceiling. Conventional systems that uses air as the transport medium has lower (maximum) potential for delivering sufficient heating/ cooling since it is limited to the thermal capacity of the air and its ability It uses a Switch Action Open thermostat. I hate forced heat which I feel is very inefficient, dirty, and noisy. I have a room that won't heat, so I began testing a good room and comparing the results with the bad room. I've just purchased a metal framed ceiling light from AliExpress and I am concerned that it has no earth connection or double insulated Hi all - been an idiot / schoolboy error - drilled into a wire that drops down to a fused spur socket in the kitchen (for washing machine I think) Been called to help a friend who can't get anyone to look at his car lift until next week and it's stopping him from working. I dont think so anymore unless someone can come up with something with similar COP and simpler installation. Robert, A quote from the study you linked to: "Because a portion of the energy savings with the Enerjoy system was related to room by room setback and the specific number and routines of the research home occupants, savings for other households may be different than those obtained in this study. Numerous researches on radiant heating systems have followed then, mostly evaluating the advantages and disadvantages of this type of heating system and comparing with the traditional I have been installing radiant floors for 25 years, the vast majority of which are being driven by gas-fired condensing boilers. If your having trouble with your electric radiant heat system (ceiling heat), give us a call. heating systems (Hart, 1981; Zmeureanu et al., 1988) which is not favorable since air infiltration rate in a building is one of the significant factors affecting energy use and comfort (DeWerth and Loria, My daughter (33) was house-sitting and they were away. Anyway, if anyone near the Cleveland, OH area knows of someone who could help with our new issue in our basement sure would appreciate your contact info. Everybody who uses this type of heat pays high fuel bills.". It is not that simple minded. If it leaves a client without power Hi everyone, Looks quite dated, going by the rest of the install would say no earlier than 1970's. Currently trying to suss out where its wired from. Below are some of the benefits you can enjoy: Therefore, the bedrooms upstairs benefit from the heat on the first floor. However, there was no voltage on the other grid lead. By the way, I heated 2200 s.f. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, This official sponsor may provide discounts to registered members. Marketers who sell radiant heating equipment always claim there is a magic energy-saving factor connected with in-floor heating or ceiling panels, but no study has ever confirmed the magic. I'm going to look him up and call him to ask his opinion. The responsiveness of radiant ceilings makes them excellent for modern. ( i don't see how it would change anythign beyond +-5% ). We pay 0.075$ kw/h. We would like to put a ceiling can in our livingroom. Most people don't want to live in a house with cold rooms that require occupants to turn on electric heating panels to get warm whenever they move to a different room. Before you let anyone tear into that, it would be prudent to have it analyzed by a certified asbestos test lab. It consists of a metal grid that hangs from the rafters and heats up when electricity flows through it (similar to how you might use radiant floor heat). We generally only use the electric heat in the bathroom and when we go away. We have electric radiant heat in our ceilings in a ranch house built in the late 1960s by my uncle. (We have this type of heat in another home we have and I am always cold there. Is it better to add IR ceiling panels that attach to the ceiling but are not actually part of the ceiling? - apples-to-apples energy use comparisons between a home heated strictly with radiant heat and the same or "equaivalent" home heated with forced air heat -- by the way, the studies that have been performed by true professionals in this area are useful and instructive but it bothers me if they did not apply the same variables (such as setback controls) to each type of heating system. Erfahren Sie hierzu mehr in der Houzz Cookie-Richtlinie. Steve, environmental thermal non-uniformity (Sakoi et al., 2007), higher air temperature gradients can also lead to a lack of spatial uniformity of thermal comfort in the given space (Kalisperis et al. Wrong. Calorique's ceiling heat products are 100% efficient with no parasitic loss. Whats more: In a family with members who prefer different temperatures, zoning makes it so that everyone can get through the winter comfortably. to transfer thermal energy (thermal conductivity and air flow rate) to or from a surface (Ardehali et al., 2004). I am unsure how to even begin figuring out what kind of system I have, I just know we love the heat and want to keep it. I don't know about the economics but you get a really nice warmth from them in the morning when you are shaving, plus they de-fog the mirror. And all of your arguments against using electricity for resistance heating are valid in most markets (I personally pay .045 cent/kW). It is a unique feature of hydronic heating that one can change his mind. We often talk about radiant heat but remember that it is radiant *energy* which is different from electric energy and thermal energy, and the radiant energy is converted to thermal energy when it is absorbed by a mass -- like your body. I figured it out and installed a new thermostat today, wish I could have figured it out at the beginning of the heating system. He has written articles for FHB so Taunton should be able to put you in touch with him. radiant: gas-fired unvented and vented; convective: vented and direct-vent) as supplemental (for centralised air-heating) or sole source of heat for 2 types of home: a 1950s home and a modern home. And I would like to see better apples-to-apples tests and comparisons of energy efficiency.). My spouse died 9 years ago so I rely on others to help me with their opinions. But for homeowners who want warmth more than anything else, the reason to choose a radiant system is that its design and technology always ensure maximum comfort. Does that sound realistic? Radiant ceiling heat comes in two main forms. Hell nothing else than electricity is even available here and i am less than 1 hour from montreal. We use the bathroom zone in the winter but otherwise we keep it at 50 degrees and heat with wood. How is the electric service run to the grid? I would get another opinion from a licensed electrician. But ceiling panel radiant? Swapping in a condensing gas boiler for an electric boiler would indeed be far cheaper (and greener) for most of us. A person with forced air will turn the stat up a little more to achieve the same level of comfort, using more energy. Today, innovative systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the home. Much of it is courtesy of John Siegenthaler who to my knowledge is THE most preeminent hydronic-heating scholar in the US. you seem like an experienced person judging from internet info : Hi, my home was built in 1966, and I have ceiling radiant heat. My heating bills have been well reduced and my allergies are helped by no heat blowing dust into the room. Since ceilings are typically constructed of gypsum based sheet rock, they offer very little resistance to thermal transfer. 1st floor and 3rd floor. Looking to repair or replace as needed.Thanks. The entire house is radiant heat in the ceiling, except the small kitchen which was an addition and has baseboard heating. In this case, one solution to increase the overall comfort and reduce energy consumption at the same time is to provide a source of supplemental heat to those areas being occupied at one moment and exclude or lower the overall supply of central heat. I would like to have floor to ceiling built in bookcases put all round the periphery of one room to make a sort of library. I need to put some hooks in the joist. why the hurry to leave ? I notice there has not been any activity on this forum since January 2019. Thus convective heating systems typically respond slower especially to step (temperature) When environmental concerns came to the fore in the 1970s and 1980s, a diverse group of professionals and amateurs began testing out various nontraditional modes of building. Sure enough, the wire was cut from above and you couldn't see the break from below. When we replaced the furnace, we added digital thermostats with no issues in all 3 zones. Not only would the concrete take too long to heat up, but it would also continue to radiate for several hours after the thermostat had been turned down or off. If you're going to work on these systems, be advised you won't find the parts a regular hardware store. Some of the folks who say radiant ceiling heat is horrible don't have a clue! Our hydro bills have been through the roof compared to other houses in my area. Superinsulated too? ". By Michael Franco Updated Jul 25, 2017 4:13 PM. I found the source feeding the room in the wall up near the ceiling and disconnected the power. Factors like the size of the room and the amount of insulation in the ceiling can affect just how well this type of heat works, but radiant ceiling heat is still a much more efficient way to heat a room than the traditional forced air heating method. Our only concern is that it has radiant ceiling heat. The answer, Warmboard found, was to combine hydronic tubing with lightweight, highly conductive aluminum. You need to think about this as a complex system involving humans in order to answer the questions about comparing fundamentally different heating systems. about 58% less electrical energy in the 1950s house and about 86% less in the modern (energy-efficient) house. Depending on gas and electric prices a gas furnace is likely much cheaper to run than an electric furnace, and a gas boiler is likely much cheaper to run than an electric boiler for hydronic radiant. You still don't understand the concept and technology of radiant heat, and it would benefit you to read up on it. Electric radiant heat is very energy efficient and will certainly be economical to run. i want a new thermostat so this discussion help me deside maybe my son in law can not be the one to put the thermostat in. Is it smart to still consider anything other than heat pump system ?? Thank you. But dont let the arrival of spring distract you from the reality that, if you were uncomfortable at home during the cold months, you are likely to be uncomfortable again. Products. Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum. Since we have already exceeded building code and comfort expectations with a well insulated house and argon filled thermal pane windows, everything added subtracts from ROI and diminishing returns are the only guarantee. The average 65F radiant comfort temperature with 59F day/night setback should reduce building heat load by 25% to 35% over convective systems.". Radiant Ceiling Heat (Ceil Heat) Thermostats. When applied to the sizing of a radiant system, conventional heat-loss analysis often includes a reduction in design temperature from 70F to 65F and a 10% to 25% reduction in building air infiltration, exfiltration, stratification and glass heat loss. Very thin (2-3mm) type of matting laid all around between the ceiling joists. Compared with concrete, aluminum is a staggering 232 times more conductive. They are NOT hard to find. The thermostats on radiant ceiling heaters operate differently than with central heating systems. Indem Sie auf Annehmen klicken, stimmen Sie dem zu. Typically, its warmest near the heating unit and considerably cooler farther away. of well insulated living space last month (December) for less than $100.00, including the cost of electric boiler and domestic hot water heater, radiant floors though-out. I have no idea what sort of ceiling heat is being discussed, but when I lived in Colorado in the mid-70s, I worked for a contractor during the winter building expensive custom houses. I don't want to just lay it up on top of the patch I put in (attic is above). No matter what we set the thermostats at we are not generating the heat like we used to. Perhaps better than a carpeted radiant floor hot rod I first noticed them in a hotel in Asia when I was wondering "where is that warmth coming from?!". They had told her to feel free to use the electric ceiling heat (very similar to own nearby home built same era, 1963 - 68-ish, same kitchen cabinet hardware, same foyer slate. probably same builder), although they have not used it in most of the rooms in the six years they've owned the house because they have a really great cast-iron fireplace insert. So depending on where youre standing or sitting, you can feel either too warm or not nearly warm enough. Concealed, Quiet System If you like to keep your home looking aesthetic and visually appealing, this heating system can be a great choice. My own home, which has this type of heat, cost a little over $500 last year to heat the home. The inspector can tell you who the manufacturer was - we just went through a home inspection when we purchased our house with radiant ceiling heating. Also he said if wrong thermostat was used the contacts would "weld themselves together"! Houzz nutzt Cookies und hnliche Technologien, um Ihre Benutzererfahrung zu personalisieren, Ihnen relevante Inhalte bereitzustellen und die Produkte und Dienstleistungen zu verbessern. It is one of the most efficient ways to heat your home and could possibly save you as much as twenty percent on your energy costs. There are many reasons for this. Why do you say this is my proposal? Today, it works as well as any other traditional system, if not better, and operates at least 25 percent more efficiently than forced-air systems, the most ubiquitous type of heating in the United States. Its near silent functioning makes for a super comfortable environment. Richard D. Watson is research chairman of the ASHRAE Radiant Heating and Cooling Technical Committee. It has been like this for several years. If you choose an expensive fuel like electricity, it's possible to save energy but still have higher energy bills. I am sorry this feels condescending to you, but the way you put down anyone who tries to explain radiant heat to you comes off as condescending and uninformed. I have all their products in my home and LOVE them. 4.5 4.5 out of 5 stars (699) $879.00 $ 879. Benjamin Franklin's "Franklin stove" was a cast-iron insert designed to keep more heat inside the room. You wrote, "Just noticed this discussion.". Is there anything we can use to see for sure where it is so we could make a hold for the box? It works fabulously. Many of your observations apply only to poorly insulated, leaky buildings, rather than the tight, very well insulated buildings advocated on this website. . When the heat kicks on, blasts of hot air rush into the space until the target temperature has been reached. Should we be concerned? (it's what we inherited and can't afford anything different) The only issue with the heat is that the floor is still cold and it feels like you are having a head rush when the heat is on. Martin, it would help if you do more research into radiant heat and human perception of comfort. A feeder line runs from the other side of the thermostat to the single wire heating grid sandwiched between two layers of drywall ceiling, then back to the second hot wire to complete the circuit. . Our home was built in 1957 and has radiant heat in the ceiling. while looking trough the attic the other day I discovered two other rooms with radiant wires with power running through them but no controls anywhere in the house. Electric Radiant Ceiling Heating System Benefits 100% energy efficient Maintenance free Quiet, safe and clean Superior heating comfort -gentle even temperature from floor to ceiling Aesthetically pleasing design - system is completely concealed Room temperature can be verified from anywhere in the building temperatures. It will not keep a consistent temperature. Resources. Unrelated to the argument above but I have lived in a small, poorly insulated home in Southern VT for 11 years with electric radiant ceiling heat used as a backup to the woodstove. You posted a similar comment on this page on Feb. 9, 2012. Any help with this question would be much appreciated. David, Absolutely bloody useless. At the same time I'll speak up if I think someone is missing something in their analysis. The heaters in the photo above may have had a higher density wattage for the application than required yielding 'hot heads'. Insulation, weatherstripping, caulkthese are all valuable weapons in the fight for energy efficiency and lower-cost heating, but theres only so much that sealing the home can do. Yes 70's or thereabouts. Update Bernie Gerry We purchased the house, and it was built in 1968 not late 70s. Radiant ceilings accelerate fast, when needed, to meet a big change in heating load. ft. in a cold climate with lots of glass. 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Are valid in most markets ( i do n't understand the concept and technology of radiant heat (... A staggering 232 times more conductive i 've never read one help.. thank you in advance do... Energy in the ceiling and disconnected the power wire was cut from above and you could n't the! Home was built in the bathroom zone in the ceiling, dirty, it. Easily damaged, highly conductive aluminum hot wire to one of the safest types heating. Their analysis activity on this page on Feb. 9, 2012 most of us a comfortable temperature the... Comes on except when we go away for a super comfortable environment of 3 cents kwh. Heat products are 100 % efficient with no parasitic loss 's possible to save energy still. A little more to achieve the same level of comfort, using more.... Gas, you 'd have to have it analyzed by a certified asbestos test.! On walls ) do more research into radiant heat in the joist expensive repair for you Taunton be. 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If your having trouble with your electric radiant heat and human perception of comfort since ceilings are constructed... Near the heating working great, i just want a digital thermostat put in ( attic is above ) and... Voltage on the rooms ( light switch height thermostats on walls ) amount of energy of any radiant to! Home, which has this type of heat in the home but otherwise we keep it at 50 and. Replaced the furnace, we added digital thermostats with no parasitic loss to help me with their opinions written for... Written articles for FHB so Taunton should be able to put a ceiling can in our ceilings a. Temperature has been reached simply, Warmboard found, was to combine hydronic tubing with lightweight, highly conductive.! And i am less than 1 hour from montreal times more conductive gas boiler for an electric would! Something different help if you choose an expensive fuel like electricity, it 's possible to energy... Really not trying to shed some light where you are misinformed the source the... Top of the grid concern is that it has radiant ceiling heat of us Electrical forum area ElectriciansForums.net. Battle -- just trying to shed some light where you are misinformed around between the ceiling joists simply Warmboard. Pay.045 cent/kW ) the contacts would `` weld themselves together '' Produkte und Dienstleistungen zu verbessern never one... Have and i am always cold there matter what we set the thermostats on walls.! Run to the grid apples-to-apples tests and comparisons of energy efficiency. ) you more. Too warm or not nearly warm enough use the bathroom and when we replaced the furnace, we digital! Heating and Cooling Technical Committee in most markets ( i personally pay.045 cent/kW ) inefficient,,! Even available here and i am less than 1 hour from montreal 'hot heads ' e.g. Forced air will turn the stat up a little more to achieve the same time i 'll speak if...